NYS Assembly Hearings on Health Effects of Hydrofracking

Assembly Public Hearing on Health Impacts of Hydraulic Fracturing Techniques  Albany, NY May 26, 2011

Playlist: Sandra Steingrabber, PhD, distinguished scholar in Residence at Ithaca College; Adam Law, MD Endocrinology, Physicians, Scientists and Engineers for Healthy Energy; Kevin Chatham-Stephens, MD Pediatric & Environmental Health Fellow, Mt. Sinai School of Medicine; Uni Blake, MS environmental toxicologist, Independent Oil and Gas Association of NY; Scott Cline, PhD, geologist & petroleum engineer, Independent Oil and Gas Association of NY. Note: Includes 1st three hours only. Audio improves after 1st clip (Sandra Steingrabber).

This was a combined public hearing of the NYS Assembly Standing Committee on Environmental Conservation chaired by Robert K. Sweeney and Assembly Standing Committee on Health, chaired by Richard N. Gottfried. The panel includes (left to right) Assembly Members Thomas J. Abinanti (Environment); Richard N. Gottfried (chair, Health); Robert K. Sweeney (chair, Environment); Steve Englebright (Energy); and Michelle Schimel (Environment).

DVDs of the complete hearings are available from: Public Information, 202 L.O.B, Albany, NY 12248. Refer to: “Assembly Public Hearing on Health Impacts of Hydraulic Fracturing Techniques from Thursday, May 26” and Include a check for . A transcript of the hearing will also be available from the Assembly Public Information Office.

“NY Assembly Hearing on Fracking & Health Impacts” (05-14-11, The Marcellus Effect)- http://marcelluseffect.blogspot.com/2011/05/ny-assembly-hearing-on-fracking-health.html


1-Sandra Steingrabber- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mhDFYUQdq0 & http://blip.tv/shaleshock-media/1-sandra-steingrabber-5217824

2-Sandra Steingrabber responds to panel- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3ZvOFSpyss & http://blip.tv/shaleshock-media/2-sandra-steingrabber-responds-to-panel-5217543

3-Adam Lawhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBgmeGiCXvU & http://blip.tv/shaleshock-media/3-adam-law-5216851

4-Adam Law responds to panelhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRVeeJ7wPgg & http://blip.tv/shaleshock-media/4-adam-law-responds-to-panel-5216662

5-Kevin Chatham-Stephenshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN_1zZbMwVE & http://blip.tv/shaleshock-media/5-kevin-chatham-stephens-5215959

6-Kevin Chatham-Stephens responds to panelhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzYCC8BZxJU & http://blip.tv/shaleshock-media/6-kevin-chatham-stephens-responds-to-panel-5215816

7-Uni Blakehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KzqBDYuZ-c & http://blip.tv/shaleshock-media/7-uni-blake-5215662

8-IOGA Scott Klinehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZl9Dp_m-1k & http://blip.tv/shaleshock-media/8-scott-kline-5215468

9-IOGA Scott Kline Uni Blake respond to panelhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9933iLt-k1c & http://blip.tv/shaleshock-media/9-ioga-scott-kline-uni-blake-respond-to-panel-5215366

10-IOGA Scott Kline Uni Blake respond to panel (con’d)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kly5pcgif1M & http://blip.tv/shaleshock-media/10-ioga-scott-kline-uni-blake-respond-to-panel-con-d-5214831

You can order a DVD of the hearings for $10 check from the Assembly Public Information Office   http://assembly.state.ny.us/req/

Scott Kline Testimony–Comment/Questions

The notion of an hermetically sealed layer by virtue of capillary blockage is also one that I heard made by a proponent of propane fracking in answer to my question, what about old gas wells or vertical faults near the fracking operation?

Theoretical knowlege has a place.  Without it, we’d have no progress.  But it can be wrong, and in this case the consequences are so bad, the precautionary principle needs to be operative.

In any case, Kline’s explanations did not pass muster with Richard Gottfried, chair of the Assembly Health Committee.

As I was recording the exchange, I got a sense of how difficult it must be for politicians, at least good ones, to deal with technical testimony.

Has this issue of ‘capillary blocking’ been adequately addressed in a scientific debate or exchange?

We keep talking about the risk of old gas wells and vertical faults.  The industry’s experts keep talking about how safe and sequestered it is in the shale layer.

We continue to make the point that the industry narrowly focuses on the fracking operation at depth when it makes the claim, repeated I believe by Kline, that no drinking water aquifer has been contaminated by hydro-fracking.

I know that I am not alone in being concerned with the long term consequences –long after the gas has been extracted.  The integrity of the well casing is often cited.  But when I here from Kline that the fracturing actually does extends above and below the shale layer, I am concerned.

As is Richard Gottfried, chair of the Assembly Health Committee, who responds to Kline’s assertion of capillary blockage with a question of capillary action transporting the liquid.  To which Kline responds, it all would go toward the well bore regardless, because of the pressure gradient.

That is the problem the theoretical knowledge.  There are coherent views, but we really don’t know what processes may unfold over time.

Though maybe it is not productive for activists to get involve with this sort of question over all else we need to focus on, certainly, some more expert scientific opinion countering the industry claims articulated by Kline would help those who in the legislature who support, or are leaning toward, and extended moratorium.

Some might say this is already out there, but I have no as yet read anything that directly addresses the industry/technical assertion that capillary blockage makes everything safe and contained.

It was a long exchange between Kline and the panel.  The assertion that the thermogenic methane that has contaminated water wells near drilling operations comes from shallow layers apparently is disputed by the Duke study.

Early, Sandra Steingrabber made the point that there are really only two studies –the ecent Duke study and the Ingraffea/Howarth/Santoro study.

On 5/27/11 9:13 PM, KatyaBelousBoyle@aol.com wrote:

No doubt now that Scott Cline holds a BS in geological science.  His statements about fracking are pure BS.   RHB

 
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James Northrup to mmsteinberg, NYGCG, ROUSE, averettr
show details 1:11 PM (11 hours ago)
Melanie

The telling point is highlighted below – 


Kline goes out of his way to discuss one of the least likely vectors of pollution – the frack going out-of-zone via vertical faulting. 

It happens – and companies have paid fines for it (Encana / Garfield County). 

Plus of course, surface casing blows out – which is in effect the frack going way out of zone. 

The problems start when the well is spudded -and prior to its being cased, much less fracked. 

The open hole during drilling (with a column of drilling mud to provide hydrostatic pressure on the gas) is a vector for methane migration 

And gas that gets into the drilling mud can get into the aquifer/ ground water – before the well is cased. 

And the cased well remains a pathway, with increasing probability of contamination into groundwater as the casing corrodes. 


Which is why the original driller will sell the well before it reaches its economic life expectancy 

To avoid the P&A (plug and abandonment) liabilities of a leaking well. Of which there are thousands already in NYS. 

Basically man-made open vectors from the formation into groundwater. 

Think of old wells as equivalent to  “man-made vertical faults” 

With no money at the DEC to properly plug them.




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